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 NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION

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DELGADO
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PostSubject: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:44 pm

New organization pops up and will be putting on a show in VA next August. The dates of the show could quite possibly kill the Canadian National Championships. Your thoughts?

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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:14 pm

I have read a bit about this and am a little torn. On one hand the timing is a little unfortunate. I think that they will pull some entries from Canada due to the potential pull of names and possible amounts of prize money that will be offered. On the other hand, why should the world stop for any one show - not everyone can take the time, or money, or whatever is in shortish supply, to make the trek to Canada and they have every right to attend another closer, cheaper, whatever, show.

There are plenty of people who have, or are, drifted away from AHA. AHA needs a major reinvention of itself to stop it, but shows little inclination yet of doing so.

As for the question of rules - the show appears to be neither AHA or USEF (or whatever the initials are now) sanctioned - they are free to use whatever rules they wish. And competitors, vendors, whomever, are free to attend or not. Abuses may or may not occur....same as at any little local backyard show. I hope that for the horses' sakes that the people running this event are mindfull of the rather public outrage that initiated the AHA rule changes and police themselves and their exhibitors, otherwise people will vote with their feet and the show will have no future.
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DELGADO
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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:50 pm

I have spoken to a key organizer of the event. In 2011 the USEF will NOT sanction any show that is not sanctioned by the parent breed organization. That said...the show is putting together their own RULE book with the knowledge that any failure in enforcing fair rules geared at protecting the horse and the "fair play" will mean certain failure of the show.

These folks are committed to providing a great show in the spirit of Las Vegas for those enthusiasts on the East Coast.

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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:17 pm

Hmmm- Is that sanction rule reciprocal? There has been mention made of AHA developing a series of one day shows that are AHA approved but not under USEF's umbrella.....any impact on those if they happen?
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DELGADO
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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:43 am

A precedent is certainly set. AHA is saying, through these one day NON USEF sanctioned shows, that the USEF is not required. I wonder if the AHA is looking to leave the USEF. AHA certainly can't argue against this show and its not being USEF sanctioned if they are pursuing non sanctioned shows at the very same time.

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SIRPREMACY DP
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ZAMA DP
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NO REGRETS!!!
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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:17 am

I am not sure what the North American Show Horse Association is trying to accomplish besides making a statement against the score card. It seems to be garnering the most financial and other support from clients of David Boggs. I have heard that he has been pressured by clients to attend US Nationals and Vegas. Regardless, I think it will have appeal for a limited niche horse market.

As to the non-USEF one day shows, this had been talked about for several years. I suspect that USEF is not upset about it. There is a joint USEF/AHA task force that is working on various issues that affect both organizations such as data sharing. The goals and objectives of the task force have been integrated into the AHA Business Deployment Plan. So, I don't think there is really an organized plan to separate from from USEF. Rather the move may be to tie it closer together at least administratively. I know that the task force has been submitting reports quarterly to the Board. Here is a link to AHA Committees/Commissions/Task Forces and their reports: http://secure.arabianhorses.org/perl/AHA/committeedirectory.cgi?func=start

As an aside, this is not very different from what most other breeds do. I know in the SouthEast many Saddlebred shows are not affiliated with USEF but the breed organization is and their major shows are.

As a further aside, in my opinion, when Arabians were a big part of society shows there was a definite need to be affiliated with AHSA/USEF. However, there is less of a need for breed shows to be affiliated. AQHA does or used to use USEF for drug testing but is not affiliated with USEF.

I view the one day shows as a way for the clubs who have smaller or no shows to put on a meaningful show that allows their members to compete. I think it is a great way to do a clinic/show for such disciplines as sport horse, reining, cutting, team penning, etc. And demo other fun disciplines like barrel racing, Cowboy Mounted Shooting, Ranch Horse etc. To me, the future for growth in this breed is for those disciplines that really support hands on owners who want doing horses.

The breed organizations that have shown greatest growth and continued strength over the last 20 years have been those I would classify as blue collar disciplines that have horses judged on their usability as riding horses for hands on owners who are involved in not just their showing but also their training and care.

edited for grammar error.
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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:24 pm

On this subject I am torn. If you don't like the way things are going, work to make a change. It sounds like that is exactly what this group is doing with the new show. However, my gut tells me that this group is not creating this show in the spirit of improving the Arabian show scene. I strongly suspect that this show is to garner support from those who oppose the halter scorecard and want to play by the old rules. Personally I will not support a show that does not to use the halter scorecard. Though the scorecard is not perfect, it has made strides in lowering the amount of abuse our horses see. I am only one small person in a large organization, but that is my position and it will not change.
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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:44 pm

rideem wrote:
I am not sure what the North American Show Horse Association is trying to accomplish besides making a statement against the score card. It seems to be garnering the most financial and other support from clients of David Boggs. I have heard that he has been pressured by clients to attend US Nationals and Vegas. Regardless, I think it will have appeal for a limited niche horse market.

As to the non-USEF one day shows, this had been talked about for several years. I suspect that USEF is not upset about it. There is a joint USEF/AHA task force that is working on various issues that affect both organizations such as data sharing. The goals and objectives of the task force have been integrated into the AHA Business Deployment Plan. So, I don't think there is really an organized plan to separate from from USEF. Rather the move may be to tie it closer together at least administratively. I know that the task force has been submitting reports quarterly to the Board. Here is a link to AHA Committees/Commissions/Task Forces and their reports: http://secure.arabianhorses.org/perl/AHA/committeedirectory.cgi?func=start

As an aside, this is not very different from what most other breeds do. I know in the SouthEast many Saddlebred shows are not affiliated with USEF but the breed organization is and their major shows are.

As a further aside, in my opinion, when Arabians were a big part of society shows there was a definite need to be affiliated with AHSA/USEF. However, there is less of a need for breed shows to be affiliated. AQHA does or used to use USEF for drug testing but is not affiliated with USEF.

I view the one day shows as a way for the clubs who have smaller or no shows to put on a meaningful show that allows their members to compete. I think it is a great way to do a clinic/show for such disciplines as sport horse, reining, cutting, team penning, etc. And demo other fun disciplines like barrel racing, Cowboy Mounted Shooting, Ranch Horse etc. To me, the future for growth in this breed is for those disciplines that really support hands on owners who want doing horses.

The breed organizations that have shown greatest growth and continued strength over the last 20 years have been those I would classify as blue collar disciplines that have horses judged on their usability as riding horses for hands on owners who are involved in not just their showing but also their training and care.

edited for grammar error.

Not everything is as it seems. I have had many conversations with some of the organizers. There is no need to link the check writers to David Boggs because of past relationships. I can't say more than that right now, but "bed fellows" are not truly "bed fellows".

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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:47 pm

MS wrote:
On this subject I am torn. If you don't like the way things are going, work to make a change. It sounds like that is exactly what this group is doing with the new show. However, my gut tells me that this group is not creating this show in the spirit of improving the Arabian show scene. I strongly suspect that this show is to garner support from those who oppose the halter scorecard and want to play by the old rules. Personally I will not support a show that does not to use the halter scorecard. Though the scorecard is not perfect, it has made strides in lowering the amount of abuse our horses see. I am only one small person in a large organization, but that is my position and it will not change.

I have every intention on being there. I hold out hope for the card but the fact is, it has not been used properly. It is STILL getting "gamed". While I prefer the card I will INDEED show at a show that does not have it if the venue is fantastic, the classes are big and the prize money is ample. I control my horses. The lack of a card does not have an effect on the fact that they will face NO abuse. I can't worry about what other owners allow to happen to theirs.

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SIRPREMACY DP
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LUMENA ELLAS
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ZAMA DP
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NO REGRETS!!!
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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:52 pm

I admit to be out of it when it comes to showing arabians now adays. But is up with all this talk about Halter Score Card? What is the problem with it?

As to the AHA, I believe it needs to get away from the USEF and reinvent itself. They need to set up their own rules like the AQHA, APHA, etc.

USEF, to me, pushes only a few disiplines and these are not the ones shown at 90% of the breed shows. Sport Horses have already separated themselves from everyone else anyway. They can stay connected to USEF.

My view. Like everyone else. Everyone has one.
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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:33 pm

The AHA/non-USEF shows count as qualifiers toward Rgionals and Nationals right? For AHA to completely step away from USEF "cold turkey" would be quite a burden for the AHA to shoulder as far as a seamless shift of rules, carding of judges, hunter & dressage point transfers, drug testing, etc. I could see a gradual weaning away from USEF possible, starting with the smaller AHA only shows and the taking on of new responsibilities as tasks and problems get ironed out on a smaller scale.

It also may be possible that if the NAASHA show goes well, and there is demand for it to have qualifing classes, that an AHA NAASHA show might in the end be a win-win. Even if only some classes are AHA qualifiers.
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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:27 pm

Can any one confirm this? There is a rumor that this group has inked a deal for a September show in Louisville for 2012..........
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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:39 pm

If this is the show Bob Battaglia is associated with, he mentions in this month's Times that they are looking at the third weekend in September, 2012. Contracts have not been signed and he will not release the dates until they are. Yes the plans are Louisville where they used to hold Nationals.

I haven't read enough to make a decision how I feel about it but, if they can accomplish something that is family friendly and brings in new interest, it may be a good thing.

Be sure to read Battaglia's article in the Arabian Horse Times
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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:53 pm

Different show. That show is a performance show in Louisville and is being headed by the Ames family. That show is going to put a hurt on U.S. Nationals.

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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:17 pm

I will have to hunt down a copy of the times to read that - hmmmm, this is all getting interesting. These shows consititute a major series of wake up calls to AHA. AHA tends to be more reactive than proactive; I hope that they don't take a wait and see attitude with what people are obviously telling them (with these shows) if they want to go forward as the main voice of the Arab industry.
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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:42 pm

Okay, I guess my question would be, if these are two seperate shows how are they going to pull off the same venue at the same time? Or are they in a competition to get the facility? Battaglia says Louisville September 2012 and Audie heard September 2012 for the North American show.

I do know that I would never pick attending that show over going to U.S. Naitonals. If I ever were to be so blessed as to be qualified for Nationals, I'd go there before I went anywhere else. That is my dream. I suspect these other shows may pull off some of the East Coast exhibitors, but I think that many of us will still head to Tulsa (in 2012).

I will reserve judgement on these shows until I hear the details. Hopefully you all with hear something interesting at Nationals.
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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:46 am

Hi Ladynyellow,
I was trying to figure out what was going on as well....Battaglia's show is Louisville, Sept. 2012...It apparently is not a NAASHA show, but is another group. Audie
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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:33 am

Just my two cents --

Any show the same week of Nationals is going to hurt Nationals. Vendors and others will not make the income they are hoping for because the visitors will not be there spending money for next year's clothes, tack, etc. The association, and venue will loose income. Thus cost to have the show will go up the next year.

Example - Ft. Worth (Region 9) starting to charge for parking this year.

People that would have gone to Nationals to watch and spend money with vendors, resturants, hotels, etc, will now have some place else to go and show their own horses. Not watch someone else win.

Only way to keep Nationals Nationals is to not give NAASHA a hand (or anyone else) by attending their shows the two weeks around Nationals.
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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:54 am

I think your two cents are right on the mark but I also think folks are going to attend these shows. The AHA is not doing a great job competing for our discretionary income and people are fed up. These "new" shows are capitalizing on that.

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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:49 pm

I understand what you are saying. I have been unemployed for almost a year now and not able to show at any of our club shows much less any other shows. I wanted to go cheer on club members at Regions and at Nationals but just keeping my horses fed has been a job in itself. I just don't want cost of our major events to go so high that when I finally can go I'm priced out of the shows.
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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:06 pm

Okay Del, it's past time for me to chime in on this one.

I know both Dan Bergren and Rob Langlois. I grew up in Michigan. I spent 20 years working many, many Class A shows beginning in 1979. I was also R13 Treasurer for 8 years.

I have no clue on earth how or why Dan B. got mixed up with Rob Langlois! Good God!

But Rob Langlois is a whinner - the CLASS A variety! He gave "me" a hard time at all of the shows I worked as "ring secretary" with the announcers. Part of my job was to give "gate holds" and the rules for that were very specific.

Rob was always demanding gate holds that he did not need. Must I tell you what his response to me was? The announcer jumped all over Rob on several occasions and a Steward pulled him aside once and cleaned his clock.

He once insisted that my "judging teams" must come to his farm for a workout with live horses. Reluctantly I took them. Those kids learned a HUGE lesson that day. How?

Rob presented, at best, very mediocre horses. But he told my kids that these were among the best horses in the country and all would be TOP 10 or better in the future. To the best of my knowledge Rob Langlois has never qualified a horse for Regionals much less Nationals. So someone want to tell me what in the sam hill "he" knows about the cost of hauling when he's "never" done it!!!!!

I've sent everyone I know in Michigan all this info re: NAAHSA. Without exception the responses have been:
1) I would never ever trust Rob Langlois for any reason and,
2) I would never even consider taking part in something he is such a major player in, period.

This guy has never done anything for the "benefit" of anyone but himself, period.

Oh yes, they're giving away stalls to the first show and promising very good prize money. Of course that means "investors". The first show may be as stated.

But here's the kicker my friends. "investors" are expecting a "return on their investment" and I can assure you Rob has promised just that. And how is he going to satisfy his "investors"? There's only one way.

He's got to kick stall fees, entry fees, etc. through the roof the 2nd year to keep his promises to his "investors". If he doesn't, he will go down big time. Rob Langlois take care of #1.

I posted twice on the NAAHSA Facebook page. My second post was removed because I called Rob by name and called him out! Does that sound to you like "anyone" who's on the up and up. What he doesn't know is that I copied and pasted both of my posts and both of their responses to my first post into a Word document for "posterity". I've pasted all 4 posts below.
________________________________________________________________

Judy Clemence
I'd like to know what the "real agenda" is with all this. You can be sure the whole story isn't being told. Let me just add a bit of fuel to this crazy fire! I'm going to directly quote from Addis Equine Auctions' "From the Auction Block ...Newsletter - September 2010" that I recently received.

"Let's look at some 'out-of-the-box' ideas being trotted out and tested within the Arabian horse community currently."

Topping the topic list right now in the Breed are new horse show ideas. At least two of these proposed Arabian horse national championship-titled shows are in the planning stages and have strong vocal supporters. At this time neither is claiming affiliation with the Arabian Horse Association."

They continue. "The special horse show that we are planning is designed to promote the Arabian horse to the general public, 'says Arabian trainer Bob Battaglia, concerning the show that is rumored to be considering dates in Louisville for next year. 'Its focus is to provide the exhibitor and the spectator with a good time. It is meant to be an event where horsemen can take pride in their Arabian horses, socialize and educate. We once offered shows that included seminars and educational opportunities for everyone. It's time that we do that again!"

TWO shows in August 2011? One in Louisville, KY. The other in Lexington, VA. Very close proximity to each other. Coincidence? I doubt it. Neither affiliated with AHA? Both purporting to be "better" for the Arabian horse and owner. Really? Exactly how?

I spent 20 years working Arabian Shows, many of those years also attending Conventions. There are so many red flags here it's unreal! Don't kid yourselves. More than likely this is an internal struggle within AHA by 2 small groups looking for power and control. I've seen this kind of chicanery far too many times. It ravages this breed at all BOD levels.

This is like watching 2 big bucks take aim at each other and physically lock horns. The questions is, and it's a big one, "Do you want to be a part of the debris that's left in the aftermath"? That's exactly where this is headed.

The only way to bring about "any" change within AHA is to replace all those now in control with "horsemen and horsewomen". Why? Because no one in control in IAHA/AHA since the mid 1980's either understands the horse business or what drives a breed organization.

These changes have to start at the local club level and go upwards. Sort of a "blow out Congress" in AHA.

I have no intention of supporting either of these "championship shows", period. I just bought my 1st horse in more than 30 years and my first Arabian. She's now 4 years old, a Half-Arabian, and, in cutting training. I've had 11 knee surgeries including 2 replacements of my right knee and I fully intend to ride my mare as far as my legs will take us - US Nationals - baby!!

I've already done spreadsheets for the 2011 show season for Arabian/Half-Arabian Cutting. I know I'm going to need $9,600 for 4 Class A shows, Region 9, and, US Nationals, if my mare shows in all of them. Given the time she will tell us when it's time but I'm going to be prepared "to take care of her".

I'm semi-retired but working full-time through Temp agencies. I'm very highly skilled in the computer field. I'm going to do whatever it takes to see to it that my mare accomplishes all that "she can", whatever "she" decides "she" wants to do which most assuredly is going to be some sort of cow work. I'll figure out where I fit in later.

Just the opinion of someone who knows way too much to ever buy this song and dance!!
Thursday at 3:33pm ยท
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

North American Arabian Horse Show Association Judy, we wish you the best of luck for the 2011 show season with your mare. We are sorry that you won't be in support of our show but as long as you are promoting the Arabian horse, we will be in support of you and hope the best for you throughout the show season.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

North American Arabian Horse Show Association
Judy, in regards to your wondering about the "real agenda", look at it this way:

"People are always looking for products with more features and capabilities, products that cost less but can do more, and products that just plain solve their n...eeds/wants better than any other product can. When companies compete, consumers get what they want."

All you need to do with this quote is change products to shows, companies to associations, and consumers to Arabian horse owners. That gives you the "real agenda"

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Judy Clemence
Oh please Rob! Exactly when did "you" become philosophical?! You are a perrenial "WHINNER". You've spent years complaining about anything and everything. I've heard you tell clients that their horses were Top 10 material when those same horses were mediocre at best.

Don't anyone misunderstand me. I'm not at all opposed to "competition".

AHA has long needed a big wakeup call, absolutely. This however, is not about a wakeup call for AHA. It's about power, control, influence.

The same power, control, and influence these guys never garnered within AHA and have always believed they so richly deserved. These guys are modern day pied pipers leading all the children off to a better place. If you don't know that children's fable, Google it.

Why else do you all think they're now developing a "membership plan"? This fabulous horse show they're promising you all gives them no power, control, or influence but membership numbers do.

Is NAAHSA also going to register your horses and provide a genetic database for you? Not likely. Yet it's a very important aspect of horse ownership, period.

And what happens to the value of your horses without "breed association" recognition? It really, really tanks.

AQHA had similar challenges years ago for the very same reasons. Those in charge were "pretty boys & girls". But they had no understanding of the "horse business", and most of all, what drives it.

The general "membership" got behind a move to put knowledgeable "horsemen & women" who did understand into the offices in Amarillo. This new group cleaned up the offices.

Not only did they listen to the membership but they began to set into motion policies to give the "membership" what they wanted as soon as funds were again available. They've accomplished many changes as a result. That's the reason AQHA is so huge today.

This is exactly what needs to happen in AHA. It took passion, conviction and courage of the AQHA membership. Whinners don't have passion, conviction, or, courage because they lack integrity and character.

If you are passionate about the Arabian Horse, the breed that's the ancestor to all other breeds, band together and fight for AHA as AQHA members fought.

If you're willing to fight for the AHA we all want, I will join you. I will never be a party to this.

Do you want to be "leaders" or the little children following the Pied Piper? What more can be said? It's just that simple. Goodbye
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arabians4ever
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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:36 pm

I just want to clarify my intentions on this one.

I worked very, very hard for all of the Youth & Amateurs while I was R13 Treasurer. In 1994 something unforgiveable as far as I'm concerned was done to the kids in the 14-17 and 13 & Under Hunt Seat Eq riders at the R13 Show in Indianapolis.

1994 was the first year this class had to be split in age because it was a Sweepstakes class. The class list went to IAHA for approval without the split. IAHA contacted our Director Jan Decker and told her to split the classes and it was done.

However, as Regional Treasurer I ordered all of the Regional awards, and, no one called me with this change. So the ribbons and plaques all said Hunt Seat Equitation 17 & Under on them, and, there was only 1 cooler for 2 champions.

Jan made the decision to give 1 class the cooler and plaques. The other class got the ribbons and no cooler. I don't remember who she gave the Champion and Reserve ribbons to.

I knew nothing about this until I was sitting at Nationals with friends, and a lady from Michigan came over and asked me how such a thing could have happened when she knew that I ordered awards. I assured her I knew nothing about it but I was immediately going to the IAHA office right there at Nationals.

I firmly told IAHA not to mess with me and put me off with the 2 lists of R13 winners for that class. I wanted both of those lists before I left on Saturday. Guess what? I got both of those lists.

After the '94 Nationals I called Jan and reamed on her for not calling me. Guess what her response to my anger was? "Judy you're problem is that you care too much".

Darn right I care!!

I'm speaking out loudly and clearly now not because I'm advocating "for AHA". NO! I'm speaking out now because so many people are dissatisfied with and disillusioned by AHA that they can easily fall prey.

I believe with everything in my heart and soul that you'll be burned by NAASHA because I know so much about a major player.

My motive is very simple. I really, really do not want to see anymore or anyone else burned in the Arabian breed for no other reason than they love and are passionate about the Arabian horse.

That is just wrong!

AHA has serious problems. The answer however is to band together in solidarity at a Convention, where it counts, and take them on, up close and personal. I've been to enough Conventions to know that it's the only way to turn AHA around. You absolutely must throw them all out and start over.
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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:29 pm

I agree with you 100%. We as members of the AHA need to ban together and change the way AHA is being handled before it is ran into the ground.
I am also a member of the AQHA because I am proud of what it has done for the breed that my family grew up with.
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PostSubject: Re: NORTH AMERICAN ARABIAN SHOW HORSE ASSOCIATION   Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:30 pm

I think it is VERY awesome that you called him out. Good on you:)

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