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 USEF Vilolations

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westernarabs
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PostSubject: USEF Vilolations   Thu May 12, 2011 6:08 pm

Don't know if anyone has seen the posts today about USEF violations and fines for some of the horses shown last year at Scottsdale. Here is the USEF posts for all 3:

SANDRO PINHA of Cave Creek, AZ, violated Rule AR101.5 of this Federation, in connection with the Scottsdale Arabian Horse Show held on February 11-21, 2010, in that SANDRO PINHA, as trainer, exhibited the horse BINT CHALL CE after it had been administered and/or contained on its body 6-gingerol. For this violation of the rules, the Hearing Committee members present directed that SANDRO PINHA be censured pursuant to Chapter 7, GR703.1a and fined $2,000 pursuant to Chapter 7, GR703.1j. It was further directed that CHARLES and ERIN HANSEN of Mantorville, MN, as owners, must return for redistribution all trophies, prizes, ribbons, and monies, if any, won by BINT CHALL CE at said competition and must pay a $300 fee to the competition in connection with this penalty pursuant to Chapter 7, GR703.1g.

DAVID BOGGS of Elk River, MN, violated Rule AR101.5 of this Federation, in connection with the Scottsdale Arabian Horse Show held on February 11-21, 2010, in that DAVID BOGGS, as trainer, exhibited the horse LD PISTAL after it had been administered and/or contained on its body 6-gingerol. For this violation of the rule, the Hearing Committee members present directed that DAVID BOGGS be censured pursuant to Chapter 7, GR703.1a and fined $2,000 pursuant to Chapter 7, GR703.1j. It was further directed that FELIX CANTU of Scottsdale, AZ and Rogers, MN, as owner, must return for redistribution all trophies, prizes, ribbons, and monies, if any, won by LD PISTAL at said competition and must pay a $300 fee to the competition in connection with this penalty pursuant to Chapter 7, GR703.1g.

SILVIO MORAES of Boerne, TX, violated Rule AR101.5 of this Federation, in connection with the Scottsdale Arabian Horse Show held on February 11-21, 2010, in that SILVIO MORAES, as trainer, exhibited the horse PSABER after it had been administered and/or contained on its body 6-gingerol. For this violation of the rules, the Hearing Committee members present directed that SILVIO MORAES be censured pursuant to Chapter 7, GR703.1a and fined $2,000 pursuant to Chapter 7, GR703.1j. It was further directed that STEFANIE POOLE of Shingle Springs, CA, as owner, must return for redistribution all trophies, prizes, ribbons, and monies, if any, won by PSABER at said competition and must pay a $300 fee to the competition in connection with this penalty pursuant to Chapter 7, GR703.1

My concern/upset/call it what you will - Why is David Boggs still competing in this industry???? He had a 5 year suspension for surgeries performed an several horses to alter their appearances and he STILL continues to break rules! This issue is being discussed all over the web today and it just doesn't make any sense to me that this person is allowed to continue to abuse, torture, maim and give this breed a bad name without being banned totally from competing at ANY breed's shows.

Any of these trainers, know/knew that ginger has been banned for years and years and still, they do it and either have gotten away with it or think they can with no regard to the animal at the end of the line. Makes me sick and angry!
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Thu May 12, 2011 6:21 pm

Yes, I saw this info being shared on FB today too and the Fugly Horse of the Day has it posted too (http://fuglyblog.com/).

There are a couple of questions that I have:

1) These violations were at the 2010 Scottsdale Show. Why does it take so blessed long? Heaven know what's gone on at the shows since. I have my doubts that this was one time (oops, how did that happen?) behavior.

2) Does USEF action trigger any further/new sanctions/fines at the AHA? I seem to remember, but correct me if I'm wrong, that the next time (that would be this time) DB was found in violation it meant a lifetime suspension.

3) Isn't this the sort of thing that AHA's Stan Morey is handling?

4) And possibly the most important ... What can we do about it, other than be angry and sick of it? I already don't have horses in training with any of the offenders. Although Legacys Renoir spent some of his early years at Midwest before we bought him.
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westernarabs
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Thu May 12, 2011 6:59 pm

Janet, I am wondering the same thing as you ask in question 2. This is another violation that has been caught. How many others has he not been caught on? And why isn't there a permanent suspension for this person? He continues to violate rules with no more than a slap on the wrist (the fines) and allowed to continue his practice. People keep using him, too, which I just don't understand other than it appears to be the "in crowd" they want to belong to. That's my observation from the side lines.

Anyone else have the answer to these questions? Or just a thought. I, too, don't have any horses with any trainers right now and have never used any of these or owned any horses in their barns. Don't plan to, either.

Mary
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Thu May 12, 2011 7:35 pm

I checked the USEF Rule book, 2011 (In part):

GR703 Penalties.
1. If found guilty, the accused will be subject to such penalty as the Hearing Committee, or
other individuals with authority to assess penalties may determine, including but not limited
to the following. The penalties set forth below will be published in equestrian magazine.
a. CENSURE. A vote of Censure will be listed under the defendant’s name in the
Secretary’s Record of Penalties. If found guilty of a further violation the defendant will
be subject to a heavier penalty than for a first offense.

His first offense was for cosmetic surgeries, he was suspended, now this and they just "censure" him?? I am confused here.
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Thu May 12, 2011 7:54 pm

Yes, this topic is flying all over facebook. Are the violations from this year or last year? One of the people I consider a friend and like him very much. Was very disappointing to hear of the violation. I don't think the penalty is strong enough. I also think if they violate again, the penalty should be even stronger. They don't check enough at the shows! Should be automatic for 1st and 2nd placing.
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Thu May 12, 2011 8:02 pm

The violations are from the 2010 Scottsdale show.
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Sun May 15, 2011 10:07 am

They were probably handed down a while ago but just recently posted.How does one penalize them more? These guys will just go and make their own shows with no governing body to at least make an attempt to protect the horses. I jsut don't understand why they even use ginger? What is the advantage of the tail super flagged anyhow?
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Mon May 16, 2011 1:39 pm

The original decision was probably made some time ago. But it does take a while. The tests have to be verified. Parties have to be notified. The committee has to make an initial decision. Then parties have to be allowed a chance to appeal. Etc. And I don't think the committee meets but a couple times a year or so. So it can take a while. I don't think they make everything public until everything is completely finished.
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Mon May 16, 2011 7:20 pm

Makes me just more unhappy to open my wallet for USEF governing and testing fees.
makes me embarrassed for showing at the Arabian shows,, but it's OK, I don't ginger so my boy won't be as competitive as those that do,,

I have been to shows and seen horses that hours before one class were being lunged with the handler wrapping the bight end of the lunge line behind the handlers butt and sitting on it in order to lunge the horse.
Then I see them standing by the in=gate for the evening session with drool coming out of their drooping lower lip, eyes more than half shut, going though a class with ears pointed to each side,
can we say "drug test?"
It isn't just halter,, it is sad is what it is.
Lori
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Tue May 17, 2011 11:45 am

Seeing horses tested and associated people sanctioned for violations makes me more happy about paying my USEF drugs/meds fee. Every time they make my life difficult at a show by testing one of my horses, I am happy to pay my drugs/meds fee. Shows me that USEF and AHA (by their association with USEF) are *trying* to do the right thing. They'll never catch everyone. People who cheat know the ropes and will find ways around the system. But USEF and AHA are trying. And for every one they catch, hopefully a couple others have second thoughts about doing the same...least it be them that gets caught next time.

At one class A show that I attend, a large majority of the horses are tested. The winner from practically every other class and a random horse from practically every other class. At this show it is usually the vet students that assist the drug tester that choose the random horse. And most of the vet students that I have spoken to at the show have little to no horse background...and none of them have had any Arabian horse background. So I'm certainly they aren't choosing horses based on who is riding/handling them.

The vets who usually test at Nationals have no Arabian horse background either. One of them would be quite happy to tell you just what he thinks of A-rabs. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Tue May 17, 2011 1:35 pm

WOW,
I can say, 'TOTO we aren't in Kansas',
cause there isn't any hint of testing going on around here at the shows I go to.
I would be happier if there was that inconvenience.

I can see your point, hope you can see mine; never happens enough, and not around here at all.
Lori
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Tue May 17, 2011 2:10 pm

I agree that we can never test enough.

But, I think that gets into a give and take in between what people will pay for the testing fees and how many horses they need to minimally test to be effective. Even if you tested everyone, people would find a way to get around it. Plenty of people complain about the testing fees already. Course that may be because they don't feel that they're getting anything from paying those fees.

As it is now, drug testers don't particularly advertise themselves. They quietly get the job done. I think they feel it better to surprise people when their horses are pulled. That way people don't know in advance and change their routine. Maybe that is the wrong approach. Maybe we should make them as visible as possible. To discorage people from giving the drugs in the first place at the show. But then what happens when they go to a show that doesn't test...? I don't know the answer to that.

I know they make my life miserable on occasion. Nothing like having your schedule for the day ruined because you have a special friend following you around. As an independent amateur, I don't have staff that I can just free up to monitor the horse and drug tester all day. But at least I know I'm getting my money's worth for my testing fee. (I have a friend who has trained her horse to pee into a bucket on command for the drug testers. Thinking about giving it a try. Would certainly make my life a LOT easier than waiting around for my horse to decide to pee.)

I don't know whether we test more in this area or not. We have vet schools in KS, OK, and TX. All have USEF testers on staff. All test major horse events. Perhaps we test more because we have the resources more readily available.

Heck knows I somedays wish there was a list and I could add some names to it. Smile Two years ago I was in a hurry to meet up with someone at USN one night. Still had my ID badge from the e-clinic around my neck. Needed some documents out of my sling bag, so I just grabbed the whole bag. As soon as I walked into one of the stalling barns and saw people I knew, they freaked out, thinking that I was testing. Nope. But I was concerned to see how nervous they got! And they are certainly not BNT. So it happens at all levels. Wished I could have walked over to where Lillich was set up and made some suggestions. In retrospect, I should have at least walked over and said hi, maybe asked him about an orthopedic case or two...just to make them a bit more nervous. Smile But I'm evil that way. LOL!
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Tue May 17, 2011 10:24 pm

I have had horses tested many times and seems that every show I go to has testers present. I havd found them all to be quite pleasant and do their best not to interfere with your schedule. They do not follow you around all day but will stick with your horse until they have the chance to collect a sample and the vet takes blood. If the horse doesn't co-operate to pee in the bottle, they give up after about an hour.
The testers themselves decide which horses to test, very random. I always ask what made them chose the horses they chose and some say they will test the winner or perhaps the second place horse or the one with the pretty face, etc. They stop you as you come out of your class and follow you to your stall. You can bath your horse or get his photo taken , whatever, but they will get the testing done. No reason not to co-operate-at least you see where your $15 is going!
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Wed May 18, 2011 9:46 am

I certainly in no way want to suggest not cooperating with testers. Quite the opposite. My point was that despite the fact that somedays they interfere with my daily routine, I am happy to have them there. And it is true that they will follow the horse. However, if you have more than one horse you're showing or other things you are supposed to be doing (such as scribing)...and don't have any ground crew to leave with them...things do get a bit trickier. Smile Not all are as eager to give up after an hour. Especially if they have a lot of vet students to go around. And as I show in a hot humid area where it is hard enough to keep the horses hydrated during the summer, we wait instead of giving the horses lasix.
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Wed May 18, 2011 5:36 pm

Never ever have seen a tester, been showing since early 90's..
maybe I am off in my own world?!?!
Lori
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Wed May 18, 2011 8:29 pm

Hi Lori,
There was a tester at one of the Ohio Valley Shows a couple of years ago. There were also testers at one of the shows at Roberts roughly 3 years ago, but I agree, we don't see them very often.
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Wed May 18, 2011 9:16 pm

It would be interesting to know how it is decided what shows have testers and how it is decided how many horses to test. I really don't know the answer to that.
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Thu May 19, 2011 11:13 am

My understanding is that it is random/at the whim of AHA.
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Thu May 19, 2011 12:58 pm

Even if AHA decides, I'm sure it isn't a passing fancy. Something must go into the decision. Location, availability of testers, number of horses at the show, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Mon May 30, 2011 1:26 pm

Wow, I've been away from the forum for a little while and I have to say, this one made me sick. Here we are a year and a half later and these violations are just now being posted. What is going on in this industry?????? And one of the violators had a 5-year suspension, in my book, this latest one should have ended his show privileges - or at the very least, he should have been subject to another 5 years for not learning his lesson.

And then I think to myself, how do you explain this sort of stuff to newbies or people you want to bring into the breed from other breeds???????

I don't know if this falls within Mr. Morey's jurisdiction or what committee, but surely they've got to see this stuff and realize that it cannot continue. I hope that Mr. Walters and Mr. Petty are looking into these behaviors and trying to think of a fix instead of wondering why our numbers continue to decline. It isn't all the economy's fault.
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:47 am

I have seen testers at every show I have been to. A girl I show with seems to be picked almost every time - weird-because I know it is random. Her trainer won't allow a shot until after her horse has shown all he is going to show for the day- to allow the vein to close up sufficiently before he shows - if he won't urinate in adequate time. So, those people have to stay with the horse until he is done for the day - never has been a problem.

Yep - multiple offenders should be permanently suspended - period. Wrong is wrong - and that person knows he is doing wrong. So - he is purposely violating the rules - because he knows nothing will happen. Kind of like our criminals - and unruly kids - if you don't reprimand and follow through - there is no reason to quit.
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:38 pm

Saw that magazine article and I was ashamed.

I am on a first-name basis with a couple of USEF drug testers. A horse in a barn I was with was Youth National Champion in 2008 and I brought the testers back to our barn on my golf cart and gave them cold bottled water.

I have nothing to hide from them. They are nice people.

And major yukkos to those who fail the tests.... pp
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PostSubject: Re: USEF Vilolations   Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:31 am

USEF picks the shows but I don't know how they do it, whether random or the pinpoint some. I think they need to test either a set number or a % of the horses there. I was at a small show a couple of years ago and the testers did 4 of my 5 mainly because there were so few horses there, 70 maybe. When I asked if they wanted to test my 5th horse they said they reached their quota for the show so I am assuming the set number or %.
I will not allow lasix, period and like I said, they have given up after about an hour and will take some extra blood. I have been tested alot and it has never interfered with our showing.
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