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 HALTER QUESTION

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DELGADO
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PostSubject: HALTER QUESTION   Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:04 am

OK...I'll start.

Judge, what are you looking for during a HALTER class entrance and what types of details will get me the second and third look we all desire (besides quality)? Is the handler's attire important? Horse's grooming? Is name recognition as important as people think? etc.......
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:20 pm

Another halter question - how much weight is given to splints and old scars?
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:42 pm

My question is, how much does height play in the placing of horses..
and do you all look at the tightness/closeness of the ears? and what about a wry/bent to one side tail versus a flag tail...

and thank you for doing this for all of us, we really want to learn..

Brandy
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McShaneArabians
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:38 pm

My question is very similar to Audie's...I have a stallion who has earned national and international titles...however, after showing and prior to my purchase, he apparently injured himself in a barn accident. Now he has a calcified hematoma on his face below his left eye. I would love to show him Amateur and I have some people telling me, and the rules state, that it shouldn't matter because it's not a genetic defect...and others tell me I should not show him halter because of the bump. I've had veterinarians look at it and each advice is similar..if they try to reduce or remove the calcification it could quite possibly create a worse defect of a hole/crater on the delicate nosebone...so at this point I choose not to remove it.

How much bearing would something like that be in a halter class in your opinion?...on the off side his profile is exquisite...but on the bump side it detracts from his typiness....your thoughts and advice?! Thank you in advance!
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:51 am

COMMANDER wrote:
OK...I'll start.

Judge, what are you looking for during a HALTER class entrance and what types of details will get me the second and third look we all desire (besides quality)? Is the handler's attire important? Horse's grooming? Is name recognition as important as people think? etc.......

The Arabian horse should be instantly recognizable. The entrance should leave me with the impression of beauty, balance, suppleness and a correct way of moving at the trot. A horse can not move correctly if they are not schooled to trot. If the handler has to jerk incessantly to get the horse to trot, which in turn causes the head to invert and the back to hollow out, the motion has been compromised. If the handler can not run with the horse or is not comfortable letting the horse get to the end of the line and allowing the horse to circle around a slow moving handler, it is difficult to get an adequate evaluation. It only takes a few strides for me to form an opinion, but those strides must not be sacrificed by the handler.

The handler's attire does not factor into my judging. There have been an outfit or two over the years that have caught my attention though. :-)
Horse's grooming and turn out will not win you a class or make you lose a class. I do complement a handler who's horse is impeccably groomed and turned out if an opportunity arises. When I show, I am a fanatic about my horse's and rider's turn out and presentation, because I feel it is a sign of respect. Respect for the horse, respect for the owner of the horse, and respect for the person adjudicating the show. JMO

Name recognition? Horses? People? Not sure what you mean here. But in my case, NO, it doesn't matter who you are, who you are leading or riding, how much you have advertised or how many foals or winners are associated with any horse or rider. I adhere to the rules, stay true to myself, and do my best to give everybody a fair chance to win a class.
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Lori Conway
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:14 am

audie wrote:
Another halter question - how much weight is given to splints and old scars?

I personally would give very little thought to scars or blemishes. Where that would change is if the scars compromised the performance. An example of that would be this: I have a beautiful, tall, incredible 3 year old gelding that sustained a major injury when he was a yearling. This injury sliced huge chunks of muscle from his forearm and the point of his shoulder. Although it is healed and filled in, you can still see the lines of the scar where his hair is missing, he has hollowed out areas on his forearm and his range of motion is limited. If this horse's motion was not compromised the scar/blemish would negate further investigation, but since it does this horse will not be able to compete.

As for splints, it depends on where it is located and any corresponding conformation weakness that could have exacerbated it. If a splint is on the inside of the leg and the horse toes out and paddles, that knowledge would factor in much more than a straight legged horse with a splint. A splint on the outside of a straight leg would most likely be caused by an injury and would not be a factor. A horse that is "bench kneed" or "off-set" and has splints would be hurt, because to me that horse is "building bone" which is mother natures way of strengthening that leg column to carry that horse.
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Lori Conway
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:45 am

Whoacomer wrote:
My question is, how much does height play in the placing of horses..
and do you all look at the tightness/closeness of the ears? and what about a wry/bent to one side tail versus a flag tail...

and thank you for doing this for all of us, we really want to learn..

Brandy

Height does not play a factor if it looks right with the horse. Our standard says "14'1 -15'1 with an occasional individual over or under". Generally speaking, if a horse is really tall, the structure of their shoulders and pasterns are more upright (which made them tall) and have more stretch. A shorter horse is "generally speaking" more angular and round. They usually have a more laid back shoulder and slope to the pasterns. I am saying this in general terms, but in all my years with horses I have found this to be true the majority of the time.

The ears and the tail are an important facet of our breed type. They are distinguishing features that should say Arabian to the neophyte. If you have to question what breed you are looking at, that horse lacks type. I like small, tipped ears on a Stallion. Mares can have larger ears than a stallion. A wide set ear is usually a big, open, soft or lopped ear and that is a fault.

A wry tail is a breed fault. PERIOD. A high tail is a breed characteristic and should be rewarded. Some people don't mind wry tails, but I REALLY don't like them and will adjudicate accordingly.

I learn something everyday from somebody. If some of my knowledge that I have accumulated over the years can be used to help others, I am more than happy to pass it on.
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Lori Conway
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:54 am

McShaneArabians wrote:
My question is very similar to Audie's...I have a stallion who has earned national and international titles...however, after showing and prior to my purchase, he apparently injured himself in a barn accident. Now he has a calcified hematoma on his face below his left eye. I would love to show him Amateur and I have some people telling me, and the rules state, that it shouldn't matter because it's not a genetic defect...and others tell me I should not show him halter because of the bump. I've had veterinarians look at it and each advice is similar..if they try to reduce or remove the calcification it could quite possibly create a worse defect of a hole/crater on the delicate nosebone...so at this point I choose not to remove it.

How much bearing would something like that be in a halter class in your opinion?...on the off side his profile is exquisite...but on the bump side it detracts from his typiness....your thoughts and advice?! Thank you in advance!

Without seeing the head, but from your description, I'd say go show him!

First of all, it is a blemish and that will be abundantly apparent to the judge. It would have been better if it was on the off side so the judge was not wondering why the head looked funny upon the entrance and the initial walk in hand. I suggest that you trot in and do one of those big circles to the left of the gate so the judge can see both sides of his head right away. First impression is important, and that way there is no denying that the judge can see the "pretty" side right away too.
Secondly, with the scorecard in place you will know if the judge did penalize you in the head and type scores.

Good luck!
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DELGADO
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:16 am

Lori...GREAT answers to GREAT questions. Thank you so much for taking the time to shed light on what is a mystery for alot of folks who are itching to "get out there".
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IItzeo
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PostSubject: I have a question regarding necks.   Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:25 am

Although I won't know the truth until I get him body clipped, but it appears that my stallion's neck has gotten thick over the winter. Maybe it is just hair (I'm hoping). My question is this: When I showed Paints a lot of the pros would sweat a horse's neck and put a throat latch warmer on them to keep the throat line clean.

Is this a 'no no' to conditioning an Arabian for showing? (Obviously new, huh?)

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this.

Gail
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Lori Conway
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:52 pm

IItzeo wrote:
Although I won't know the truth until I get him body clipped, but it appears that my stallion's neck has gotten thick over the winter. Maybe it is just hair (I'm hoping). My question is this: When I showed Paints a lot of the pros would sweat a horse's neck and put a throat latch warmer on them to keep the throat line clean.

Is this a 'no no' to conditioning an Arabian for showing? (Obviously new, huh?)

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this.

Gail


Hi Gail,

I would absolutely go to work sweating his neck. This "sweating" can be achieved several ways. The first is of course just pile on the sweats and work him with them on. When you are done working, let him wear the sweats for awhile and cool down with them on. Then towel and clean up the neck when you groom him. When the neck is dry put on a throat collar for the night and repeat the process again.

If you ride him, as we do our stallions, it is hard to use sweats at that time. You can put sweats and a cooler on them after riding while they cool down and then repeat the above process.

Good luck this year!
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:14 pm

Judge,

Now I don't know if this is similar to the facial question up above. But My mare has a scar under her left eye and I believe it causes her to "cry". I use Clear Eye but it doesn't help. I would like to do Halter classes with her but afriad of this continual "crying" or tearing up. Will this affect her in the class?
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Lori Conway
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:36 am

Ranyiah_86 wrote:
Judge,

Now I don't know if this is similar to the facial question up above. But My mare has a scar under her left eye and I believe it causes her to "cry". I use Clear Eye but it doesn't help. I would like to do Halter classes with her but afriad of this continual "crying" or tearing up. Will this affect her in the class?


I would show this horse. I see no reason that it would effect her placings in the ring.
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McShaneArabians
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:54 am

Lori Conway wrote:
Without seeing the head, but from your description, I'd say go show him!

First of all, it is a blemish and that will be abundantly apparent to the judge. It would have been better if it was on the off side so the judge was not wondering why the head looked funny upon the entrance and the initial walk in hand. I suggest that you trot in and do one of those big circles to the left of the gate so the judge can see both sides of his head right away. First impression is important, and that way there is no denying that the judge can see the "pretty" side right away too.
Secondly, with the scorecard in place you will know if the judge did penalize you in the head and type scores.

Good luck!

Thank you so much for the boost!....I should have included pics on my first post...but here are a couple..not the greatest, but you'll get the idea!...imo...the bump is pretty significant..but maybe I worry too much!...also, below the bump he has a dent I believe from being shanked so much in the past.





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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:20 am

McShane your horse is gorgous!

Thank you Lori!
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Lori Conway
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:33 am

Ranyiah_86 wrote:
Judge,

Now I don't know if this is similar to the facial question up above. But My mare has a scar under her left eye and I believe it causes her to "cry". I use Clear Eye but it doesn't help. I would like to do Halter classes with her but afriad of this continual "crying" or tearing up. Will this affect her in the class?

If you haven't had a veterinarian already check her tear duct, I would think about having her looked at. A blocked tear duct can also cause the symptoms you describe.
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Mortazavi Farms
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:14 pm

I want to thank you Lori for coming here to answer questions for all of us Ammy's.

I have a question as I was thinking about this today. We have a 2 year old colt that we are showing halter this year. At least with our foals, their heads get a little long/not so dishy in their 2 year old year. I have noticed that his head has gotten this way. Do the judges take into consideration age when judging the head? I guess this could also translate into the butt high problems as well.
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Lori Conway
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:45 am

Mortazavi Farms wrote:
I want to thank you Lori for coming here to answer questions for all of us Ammy's.

I have a question as I was thinking about this today. We have a 2 year old colt that we are showing halter this year. At least with our foals, their heads get a little long/not so dishy in their 2 year old year. I have noticed that his head has gotten this way. Do the judges take into consideration age when judging the head? I guess this could also translate into the butt high problems as well.

I certainly agree with you that 2 can be an awkward and growthy age for many horses. However, I don't think I can truthfully say that the horses age is going to factor into the head score. Many 2-5 year old horses have teeth bumps that can be unsightly and easily overlooked because I can envision the head without them. I wouldn't know that your horses head is long and not dished, but with age and maturity it is will improve. You know it will get better because that is what your horses have done in the past. I have to evaluate what is in the ring in front of me at that exact moment and I am unable to speculate as to the future product. At least with the Scorecard you will know what they thought of the head and if it hurt you or not.

I hope that makes sense. We all know that many heads "dry out" as horses age, but we don't know for sure that it is going to happen until it actually does.

Best of luck with your colt!
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PostSubject: Can someone help me find a throat latch warmer?   Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:47 am

After working and bathing my stallion today I spent several hours searching the internet for a fleece throat warmer. All I've been able to locate are the neoprene sweats that are only for use while working a horse. While bathing Fire, I noticed that his neck isn't as thick as I thought... it's mostly hair that I'm clipping in the morning. His throat line really could use a fleece warmer on it to improve the look of it and I haven't been able to locate one!

Can someone give me a website/horse supply store that has them? I'll be making phone calls to local suppliers in the morning and praying I can find one!

Gail
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:37 am

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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:53 am

Gail,
If you have no luck finding one e-mail me at libertyequinesupply@juno.com. I have a couple here. Ellen
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:24 pm

That is good to know!
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:46 pm

I have a question as to what kind of movement judges are looking for at the walk and trot. I think my confusiion comes from what I see trainers doing. For example, I've seen traniers walk horses slowly with their heads and necks elevated. I don't understand this because a horse won't show it's best walk. My filly has great overstride at the walk. So, I can't understand why I would want to elevate her head and neck have her walk slowly. I think she should walk out with a lower head and neck to show her overstride. Also, with the trot, I've send traniers elevate the head and neck presumably to elevate the trot. The problem with this is that a horse will drag it's hocks. I'm assuming that the trainers are trying to show the judges what they're looking for which is perhaps an over generalization.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Dave
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PostSubject: You are great!!!   Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:35 pm

Thanks so much for the website! You could have just said it was Schneiders! I also found a few other things there that I will be getting come income tax check!!! They have the exact throat collar I've been looking for!!! I love you cheers I have moved the bookmark for the Ammy Army up to the top of my bookmark list!!!

Kudos to Del for this wonderful idea!!!

Gail
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McShaneArabians
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:29 am

Because not all Arabians move equally...just like people's personalities and jobs are different.....I would like to know if a horse that is a hotter english type horse trotting into the arena is looked on more favorably then another horse that is equivalent in conformation, but moves not as animated because it may be a western pleasure horse. I know the english type, of course, is always a crowd pleaser Smile

Thank you!
Rebecca
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PostSubject: Sport horse in hand question   Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:50 pm

I'm asking this question for a friend of mine who can't seem to find the answer anywhere, so I'm hoping someone in the Ammy Army can help.

My friend bred her Arabian mare to (in Dressage circles) the famous Meisterwind. She is totally into dressage and Sport Horse, thinking about showing the expected foal IN Hand. Her question has to do with the Judges' Card category of 'type'. We are both wondering how 'type' will be scored in Sport Horse in Hand. There are a lot of Half Arabians in these classes, Anglos, too. Will the 'type' be based on total body suitable for sport events and dressage? Or will it still be looking for the Arabian type?

She's pretty concerned about how the scoring will work and is looking forward to showing this foal (and it's still in utero!).

It is an interesting question and am curious to learn about SHIH as well.

Gail
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:22 pm

Gail,

I show in sport horse. The horse I show is a purebred and haven't shown H/As but I assume the judges will ask the same questions. Everytime I've shown, the first thing they ask is the intended discipline. They're asking you to declare a discipline which I think will imply a type, a more upright horse for dressage and a more horizontal horse for hunters. That's my nderstanding and I'm not sure if the scoresheets are the same for H/As and Anglos. I think you can access the scoresheets on AHAs website.

I hope your friend gets a great foal.

Dave
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:53 am

The score sheet is the same, regardless of HA/AA or PB. They aren't supposed to ask discipline anymore. Some do, some don't. I even had one last year that told me what they thought my horse would be suitable for. I think they want to see some Arab type (even for a 1/2). You should repost this question in the SH area so it can be discussed between the SH people.
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PostSubject: conditioning   Fri May 01, 2009 2:41 pm

I am not sure if this was asked already (still have a bit to reda on this topic) but what in your opinion is the best way to condition a horse for halter showing....is there a difference for stallions vs mares....and what do you like to see (condition wise)?

thanks,

Rachel and Aries
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PostSubject: Re: HALTER QUESTION   Thu May 07, 2009 2:10 pm

Hi,
There are a lot of different ways to condition....lunging, free lunging, riding, walking...you don't say what age you are working with.
For youngsters - lots of hand walking, especially up and down hills if you have them. I would teach them to lunge, but don't over do it. Use it more for training purposes and to use if there is no ring available to free lunge in, like at a show, etc. Free lunging, moving consistently forward is my preference for youngsters. Watch out for the crazy racing and jamming into stops and turns - that's not so good. Use all 3 gaits as they will develope different sets of muscles and make sure that you don't neglect the walk - it will add smoothness to the body.
For adults - do the above and add riding or driving. Again, hill work in all cases will help the hip and topline.
If you are lunging a horse that has worn a bridle, working in a surcingle and side reins will also help develop the top line. Keep their head at HP or WP levels - EP levels won't help with the topline.
Another hint is to do something with them everyday - even if it is just hand walking for 20 minutes in the barn aisle. And work both sides of the horse evenly.
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