On another board there is once again photos of extreme shoeing with pad stacks. It invariably comes around to people saying "I don't like doing it, but I have to if I want to be competitive". So, my question is, can one compete in the SS division, especially CEP, with a flat shod horse? Many people state that the pads don't change motion, but I have gotten so I can pick out the padded horses almost immediately. Can a well trained, well mannered horse that meets all the specs of the class do well without long toes, pads and the enhanced motion?

if the horse has the same amount of motion without the pads, it should do fine. if it does not perform as well as the padded ones, then it will not

But does the amount of motion always equate performing well? Can a horse that otherwise performs as well, but doesn't have that particular type of motion do well? That is my question. Does it all come down to that certain way of moving? What about manners, cadence, etc? All other things being equal, will the padded, long toed movement necessarily win?

if the horse doesn't have the motion to do the division, it will not win (IMO). judges will generally place the better moving horse and forgive some mistakes in manners over one without the needed motion.

Bummer. I hate the pads, and my mare would be a nice country horse, but she doesn't have that kind of motion. think I'll give it a try anyway.

the thing is, there are lots of horses who do not need the excessive pads to do really welll ................. they have plenty of motion with regular shoes on. I have a HA Park horse who had really crumbly feet when I got her - - so she had to work & show in just regular shoes (the others would fly off every week costing a fortune and continually tearing off bits of hoof). the mare does very well - - but does have the motion and athletic ability to do so. I go with the idea that the horse will tell you which division they really fit into.....rather then force them into one that they are not suited for and cannot do well in. (actually, I think they know when they do good and I do not want to have them embarrassed if they cannot compete)

I'd still like to hear the judges opinion on whether they'd place a horse that is 'a little different' than all the rest.

I have an unshod mare with nice feet, who I'm planning on showing in Hunter Pleasure classes. Am I going to get dinged for going barefoot?

I detest pads - show ring stupidity to which many of us feel we must conform to in order to be competitive. If your mare has good feet don't put shoes on her let alone pads. Horses are better of barefoot. If you really think you must use pads, I suggest that you leave main ring and go to sport horse. I think generally sport horse judges don't like our pads. They'd rather see a barefoot or plain shod horse. If I were a judge, I'd be very impressed with a barefoot horse with good feet - large hooves with good angles and a nice balance between heal and toe.

I've wondered if my filly was ever penalized in halter for being barefoot. Some trainers even shoe yearlings.

I hope I've made it clear how I feel about pads. Pads are mostly fashionable stupidity in a dumbed down show ring. There are some horses that need them but most don't.

Dave

Unfortunately, showing English in this day and age requires far more motion than 20 years ago. If you look at Park horses past, they wouldn't even be able to compete in CEP today. To answer your question, as someone who's owned and showed national level English horses, most judges, all things equal, will give the class to the horse with the "rounder" motion which in general means the horse with pads. Most CEP horses today don't look like much of a pleasure to ride, but as the divisions have envolved, Park horses have in general become freaks of nature and you're lucky to get a class with one or two horses in it. English Pleasure are the Park horses of old, and CEP are the old English, leaving the old CEP to compete in Hunter and show hack and western. It's so sad.

So, yes, I believe to be competitive in CEP, one needs to enhance with pads and shoes if one plans to win. A flat moving horse isn't going to do as well.

To skew competition levels back to their proper divisions I would like to see hunter, WP and CEP horses flat shod with only 1 protective, non or mimimally wedged, pad. Only allow the stacks for EP and Park. CEP rules still read that extreme motion is to be penalized. While I agree that extreme motion is a little hard to define due to the varied talents of different individuals, we shouldn't be shoeing FOR it. I also realize that the shoeing rules were changed for the horse's protection, but like anything else those rules are being pushed to the extreme.

I completely and totally agree. A CEP horse, western, and hunter should be flat shod, or with a protective pad. No wedges, no weight, etc. The divisions have changed so much over the years that it's almost impossible to achieve the Park and EP divisions. IT's sad because it is so beautiful to watch and fun to ride!

I was wondering, since I'm planning on showing halter, if I should put shoes on my mare. She has a lovely flat kneed movement for riding and its how she moves. SHould I worry about it at all? I'm not planning on showing her under saddle yet.

I don't think that I would worry about it. If you want to shoe for the mare's protection - fine and dandy. Otherwise, while a super moving horse is going to get extra looks, most halter horses generally are not extravagant movers. If you shoe and go beyond the basics, you need to begin to get careful. From past Morgan experience, the more stuff you load onto the feet, the more "foot path" (travel) abberations you begin to see, and halter, more than performance is where you will get dinged for them.